Folks, here's the start for Amy Jones' participation in our blog for Management Issues in Student Affairs.
Amy, when you get a chance, kick this off by replying to the questions below, as you see fit. This exercise is intended to help our students learn through the experiences of our young alumni, whose voices are crucial to their understanding of the work. This is particularly the case because you had pretty much the same grounding in student affairs at the beginning of your career as they do.
We didn't do this for your cohort, but every student has an oral examination following up the comprehensive exam that they took last week. Those oral exams are beginning this week, but, once they navigate them, the coast for the job search is clear! In any event, some may be, well, a bit distracted....
Discussion starters:
1.) Describe your professional path in the field. If there are aspects of your decision making in your career choices that may inform how our students aproach the beginning of their own professional employment, please share them. If there are things you'd have done differently, please explain them.
2.) Describe some challenges you've faced in the work. Are there experiences you've had as a supervisor (or with a supervisor) that presented particular difficulty (or particular joy)? Are there challenging interactions with faculty, colleagues, students, or parents that have made lasting contributions to your learning?
3.) What keeps you going? What are the best parts of the work, particularly any neat surprises you've experienced, ways in which the work was better or more fun than you expected?
4.) You have have addressed this, but if there are any particular pieces of advice that you'd share with entering professionals, what would they be? These students are beginning their job searches (remember that?) and at the brink of making choices about what they'll be doing and where - choices that matter. Any advice for them?
A portion of the students will be interacting with you over the course of the coming week. They'll react to your observations and ask follow-up questions, and whatever time you can spare to respond to them would be nice. A dialogue with you, in effect, is what I'm seeking. Those not in direct contact with you will be observing the discussion.
I think you'll all enjoy this!
Best,
TEM
Hello everyone,
ReplyDeleteCongrats on finishing your written comps and I wish you the best of luck on your oral comps this week. I'm sure you will all do GREAT!!!! Best of Luck.
I will start to add my responses today and will try to have all of my responses completed by tomorrow evening.
Dr. Miller,
Thank you again for inviting me to join in on this activity. I am very excited to be apart of the USF family.
Amy
1.I'll start by explaining my professional path into Student Affairs which is a bit different than the traditional experience and throughout there will be a few things that I will share that I feel might have done differently.
ReplyDeleteI was not your typical over-involved undergraduate student. Actually, I think I belonged to one club when I was an undergrad but, that was because I was a student athlete which left little time to be involved in other activities.There is tremendous value in being a student athlete and the skills you learn are lifelong however, when you enter the world of Student Affairs you typically have some experience with clubs/organizations, residence life, greek life, SGA, some thing. I did gain my experience it was just as an employee rather than a student.
After graduating from my undergraduate institution, Millersville University in Pennsylvania, I was lucky enough to stay and work there, first as a graduate student and then next as a full time employee in an interim position. The first position was through the Wellness Center. I was the Graduate Student Coordinator for Volunteer Programs. This position was my crash course in student programming, student advising, and the field in general. The second position I held was Interim Coordinator for Student Affiars. In this position I gained experience in orientaion, leadership programming, clubs and organizations, and greek life. I was lucky enough to stay in this position for two addition years even though the position was an interim position. At this point I knew Student Affairs was for me and knew graduate school would be the next step.
I purposely searched for an institution that would provide a cohort experience, an assistantship, and that was in warm weather. I loved my experience at USF and valued the skills I learned working in Residence Life, especially the crisis management skills. I purposely wanted an assistantship in and area that I had not experienced so I pushed to get into Residence Life. I left USF and took my first post master’s position as Director of Student Activities at Elon University in North Carolina. The only reason I was qualified for a director's position was because of my previous full time experience. I was in this position for three years. The first year was very difficult. I had to earn the trust of my supervisor and others at the university every step of the way which was a new experience for me. I knew when I took the position that the previous person who had the position had been at Elon a long time but I failed to consider how that level of comfort was now being disturbed for my supervisor and the administration as I became a part of their team. I wish I would have had that insight during my first year and realized that the trust they were searching for was not about me because at the time it felt very personal and was very difficult.
After three years at Elon I began to think about my next career step and began searching for a job that either incorporated many of the areas I had experience with or highlighted the areas I enjoyed the most. The Assistant Dean position described all of the areas that I love most about working in Student Affairs. It focuses on advocacy work and working one-on-one with students. In this position I get to use my problem solving skills to help students find the best solutions that will help them to be successful. I am often working with students in distress or students who have had a significant crisis so, all of my on-call experiences from residence life and while at Elon helped prepare me. Each position I have had has prepared me for the job I have today. It might be hard to imagine where you want to be 5, 10, or 20 years from now but each position you take can build off of each other. Instead of trying to think where you will be in 10 years from now, think about what your strongest skills are and how you can continue to develop theses skills in new and different ways in your next position.
Thank you for sharing your story, Amy. As an Assistant Dean, I assume you supervise a number of professional staff members. Could you share insights as to what challenges and successes you have had as a supervisor of professional staff vs. student/graduate staff? Also, where are you working currently?
ReplyDeleteAmy,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your contribution to this blog. I really enjoyed reading about your journey into student affairs, particularly the story about your initial struggles at Elon University. I can very much relate to these trust-building issues, having experienced them during my first year. These types of conflicts raise the issue of fit, which is a large focus of my current job search. From your experience, what would be some good questions to ask prospective employers during an interview to address these "fit" issues? Hopefully these questions would help avoid any tension during my transition into the position. Thank you,
Juliann
2. Having the chance to be a supervisor at any level is a valuable experience and is usually hard to come by early in your career. I have had the chance to supervise professional staff, student workers, and graduate students at different points in my career so far. It is one area I feel I will always be developing mostly because I continue to learn about myself and I learn a tremendous amount from those that I supervise or from those that supervise me.
ReplyDeleteI have found that finding a great supervisor begins with knowing yourself. Spend time thinking about the type of work environment that is best for you and consider that when you are job searching. It is very easy to get caught up in the glitz and glamour of a job and miss the signs that may indicate that a job is not the right fit for you.
The position I took at Elon was a great experience but I definitely struggled with my supervisor during my first year because I let the excitement of the job overshadow some signs that would have at least prepared me for what was to come. During my interviews I continued to hear about this thing people called the “Elon Way” and my supervisor mentioned that everyone at Elon must “earn their wings”. During my first year I struggled because my supervisor was micromanaging me and every event I held seemed to be inspected by different administrators. At the end of the spring semester I held my last large event, a large concert, it was after this event that my supervisor said I had “earned my wings” and from there things changed. In hindsight, I was told I would have to earn my wings and I was told about this “Elon Way”, which really is a specific expectation of quality for all areas of programs and events, but, when I was job searching I didn’t think too much about it. Would this have kept me from taking the job? Maybe not but at least I wouldn’t have been so frustrated if I had gone in remembering what was really said about the work environment and been better prepared.
The supervisor who hired me at UNCG, is now at the University of Florida. Dr. Jen Day Shaw was the main reason I went job surfing on UNCG’s webpage. She worked and taught at USF and had just left the program as I entered. She has an incredible reputation in the field and when I saw that she had a job opening I knew that I had to apply. I think one of the best ways to learn in this field is to watch others and one of the best ways to improve your supervisory skills is to have a great supervisor. Jen was a great supervisor on so many different levels but mostly because she is a natural teacher. She was always willing to talk through situations with me. We would talk through the decisions that she made and how conversations went with faculty and parents. I learned so much simply because she would let me sit in on meetings and phone conversations and then talk through the situation again. You will gain a tremendous amount of hands on skills during your first few jobs but you will learn so much more about the field, your institution, university politics, and yourself if you have a great supervisor.
The second part of this question asks about interactions with faculty, parents, students, and colleagues that have made a lasting contribution on my learning. Everyday I find that I am amazed by the students I work with but, it is the interactions I have with parents that have contributed the most to my personal development. Working with family members is not as difficult as many believe especially if their student is in crisis or having difficulties. Most parents want the best for their student and all they want is someone willing to help. But, it is through these parents that I have learned the most about how some of my student’s socioeconomic class, culture, religion, and family values have influenced their paths. Trying to respectfully communicate to a strong Dominican father that his daughter does not need to quit school because she received a “C” in one class is not something you prepare yourself for but is an experience you will always carry with you. I usually find that I am also stretch to my limits or put outside my comfort zone when dealing with parents and this is where I experience the most personal growth.
ReplyDelete3. What keeps me going???
ReplyDeleteHonestly the thing that keeps me going is being able to do a job where I feel I am helping others, working in an environment that promotes and encourages growth, and having friends and family that support what I do. Outside of that I take at least one long vacation a year, outside of holidays and conferences, to re-energize myself.
One thing that has surprises me working at UNCG is how top administrators are still invested and involved with the students. I have always feared that the further up the ladder I would go the further away I might get from working one-on-one with students but, I have seen that it is much more about the institution you are at and the type of professional you choose to become. There is such a unique culture at UNCG that allows and encourages all faculty and staff to be a caring and involved community. It has helped me shape a vision of myself for the future as a Student Affairs Administrator.
Amy,
ReplyDeleteThank you for insight and story. It is very much appreciated! I was wondering as the Assistant Dean, What has been your most challenging experience? And what has been your most rewarding? Also, as an alumni of this program, what is your best memory of your experience? It is always nice to hear about other's experiences in this program, since it has changed and flourished as time goes by.
Thank you! Have a good one!
Roxy Gandia
@gbowers: I currently supervise 2 graduate assistants in my position as Assistant Dean. While at Elon I did supervise professional staff and there is a difference in my opinion. First, I came into Elon inheriting the staff that was already there which can be a challenge. There was a lot of loyalty to the previous staff person who had left abruptly and it took some time to develop some trust. My supervisor at Elon really included the staff in the hiring process so that helped but the thing that created the best unity for us as a staff was having the summer to plan together before the students came back for the fall semester. During this time I really let the staff guide me through what had been happening and what their vision was for the future. Then together we created a plan for the upcoming year. The department really needed some changes and that was what I was brought in to do. The only way this would be successful is if everyone had buy in and if everyone was behind the efforts.
ReplyDeleteWhen the students returned we did have some struggles because they were not as willing to embrace the changes. The only thing that made this easier was having a staff that believed in what we were doing and who stood behind the plan all the way. They also helped the students see that they controlled the next steps in the development of our organizational plan and reassured them more than I could as a new person.
It is always easier when you have the chance to hire your own staff but rarely is that the case when you first enter a position. The best thing you can do is spend some time learning from the individuals who you supervise. Learn about the areas that they are responsible for and in turn you will learn a little about them and begin to build some trust. It is also important to maintain boundaries, I will talk about this a little more in another post because I think this is so important.
Supervising graduate students, I feel, is one of the most rewarding experiences. I see that relationship as a coaching/mentoring one. I love hearing what they are discussing in the classroom and helping them apply it to the workplace and it helps me stay connected to the new trends and topics being discussed. I also enjoy seeing how much they grow in such a short amount of time. I use the same supervisory style that I like from my supervisor. I keep a open door policy to talk through any situation, as difficult and new crisis present themselves I talk it through with the grads so they can understand how things played out, how decisions were made, what steps were taken, and how it was resolved. In our office our graduate students are simply an extension of our office and they are gradually trained to handle almost everything in the office. They play an integral role on our staff and I value what I learn from them everyday.
@Juliann: I'm guessing you are strictly talking about the supervisor and supervisee "fit" in your question. First, start with knowing what you need. Do you need a supervisor who gives a lot of praise? Do you need a supervisor who is very task oriented because this keeps you on task and keeps you accountable? Really think about the qualities you are looking for and then start asking questions. I would start by asking the person who will be your direct supervisor how he/she describes his/her supervisory style and then I would start asking others. Ask other people on his/her staff how they would describe the supervisor. Also, be perceptive. If you are in the person's office and he/she says thathe/she is extremely organized but the office seems like a disaster then maybe his/her description of "organized" doesn't match yours. When you meet with students ask them about their perceptions of the department and the university’s administration. Students are usually very honest and if they feel administrators are difficult than you might have a hard time as well. The last thing I recommend is to use as many networks as you can to see if anyone has worked at that previous institution and see if you can get feedback from them. There are so many people connected to USF who are more than willing to help out so don't be afraid to reach out and ask if anyone has worked there or knows of someone who has.
ReplyDeleteAmy, thank you for your helpful suggestions. I will definitely be more perceptive to small "hints" during the upcoming interview process. -Juliann
ReplyDeleteAmy,
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for sharing your path into student affairs. I really enjoyed reading about the skills that helped prepare you for the Assistant Dean position such as gaining experience by being on-call. If someone did not take a residence life path, what other skills do you think would be important for this role? Thank you.
Loren
@Roxy: Challenging experiences
ReplyDeleteRight now the most challenging areas of my job come when I hit administrative roadblocks that prevent me from helping a student either stay in school or return to school. There are policies and procedures in place for a reason but many times they seem counterproductive. I good thing is that I have a supportive work environment where I can vent my frustrations safely and be supported and most offices on campus work very hard to do everything they can to help students be successful but there are times that the rules just seem misguided. It's difficult to break bad news to students when they have been working so hard to return to school or when the circumstances seem out of their control. It could become easy in these moments to bad mouth other departments but it is so important to always check your emotions. I know that I can get very passionate about situations as I work closely with students so I truly value the time my supervisor and colleagues give me to vent when I am frustrated. This then allows me to have a clear head when I work with the student and to remember that no matter how much I may disagree with a policy or procedure part of my job is to uphold the decisions that are made and to help the student plan for the next steps.
Rewards
Some of the greatest rewards I have had lately are from students who have been struggling with severe mental health concerns. Part of my job responsibilities are to meet with students who have been hospitalized for suicide attempts or severe suicide ideation. This meeting is to determine the student's readiness to return to campus and to develop a success plan. With the students help we discuss what resources would best support them and then develop a contract to help keep the student on track. This process has produced the most rewards for me overall. It is satisfying to see how we are able to help a student get back on track quickly when they begin to slip again because we have developed that connection. One student mentioned that if it wasn't for our connection she would have had to go into the hospital more than once during the semester which means she would have had to drop out of school. Being able to keep her in school and know that she is getting the help and support that she needs is very rewarding.
Memories
Some of the best memories I have from the program are because of the relationships I made with my cohort. We were a tight group and supported each other throughout the entire program. We knew that we were all reaching for the same goal and decided early on that we would get there together. I don't know that we had any of the professors you actually have today. We did have Dr. Conway for theory, who we adored, and that was it. Dr. Miller was not teaching yet and everyone else has either left or only taught for one semester. One of my favorite things that we did in classes was case studies. I remember the Director of Housing giving us a case study that involved renovating buildings and balancing budgets that really made us think outside the box about how administrators have to make decisions. We did quite a few presentations as well and we had some characters in our class so that always made things interesting. One of my classmates enjoyed dressing up some for presentations he took on a new persona; it definitely made kept things lively.
Good Afternoon Amy,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed learning about your path into Student Affairs. I currently have a friend coming to the program who was a student athelete in a very similar situation and will be in housing so I will have to let her read you post because I know she is nervous for the transition. I live about half an hour from Millersville and almost went there for undergrad for teaching, but went to Temple instead.
I will be interviewing for a position in Housing at UNC Greensboro at TPE and am very excited about the opportunity.
I was wondering what you thought the hardest part was for transitioning from being a Grad in Housing to supervising Grads and other professionals and students. I know you did not stay in housing, but I plan on it and hope to transfer the skills I learned for supervising undergrads to supervising grads but know there are a lot of differences. Can you shed some more light on that?
Thanks,
Rachel
@ Loren: For the type of work that I do, crisis management skills and advocacy skills are key. One way to gain these skills might be through working with a Sexual Assault Response Team. Most campuses have a group on campus and often the group is made up of volunteers from different departments. This would be one way to gain experience. You could also gain these skills by being a part of your institutions crisis management planning team. Try and volunteer for as many committees that involve these areas as possible if it is of interest. I know that our Interim Vice Chancellor for Student Affair gained a lot of her crisis management experience by volunteering for the American Red Cross and she is still very active with that organization today. Volunteer work is another great way to gain experience but you just have to market yourself correctly.
ReplyDeleteAmy,
ReplyDeleteSorry for the late post, I could not figure out how to post! Your story was very interesting and I could see a lot of similarities in our path to student affairs. As I am nearing graduation and starting the job search one of my questions for you is how did you narrow down what positions to look for and what interested you? I am struggling to find position postings that match my experience and that I think I will be happy doing. I am also considering searching outside of the student affairs field but I guess I just need so guidance, any advice?
I am happy to hear that what keeps you going is knowing that you are in a supportive environment and that you are doing something to help others, that is my ultimate goal as well. Thanks again for sharing your stories!
Sarah
@Rachel
ReplyDeleteI'm glad you asked this question about transitioning into supervising graduate students because I didn't mention it earlier. One of the best pieces of advice I received earlier on when I was working straight out of my undergrad was to have very good boundaries when working with students and when supervising any staff. You will be working so closely with your staff and you will build such a close bond with them that it can be difficult to maintain professional boundaries but it is very important that the individuals that you supervise always see you as their supervisor. This is one of the areas that I see new professionals struggle with the most. It is easy to become close friends with the people you supervise especially if they are graduate students and so close in age but, that can blur the lines when it comes to the supervisory relationship and if you have more than one person on your staff can build tension within the staff.
Building a strong team is very important but maintaining the boundaries between each is key. Can you do something fun/social as a team? Yes, as long as it is the whole group and it is appropriate like dinner, a baseball game, or a day hike on a local trail. It's ok for your staff to bond without you. Leave early if suddenly dinner turns into drinks at the bar or the group wants to go out after the ball game. This is their time to bond and have fun as grad students do but the "boss" shouldn't be present even if they beg you to stay.
You may have heard of the term “teachable moments”, you will have a lot of these with your graduate students. I found that with undergraduate students there were far less teachable moments simply because of their level of development. I would always try to approach things as a teachable moment but it never reached the depth that it should have because the student just couldn’t understand. With graduate students you can have much more meaningful conversations and deeper learning moments. You will be able to see them grow and develop even in a short amount of time. So, the time you spend developing and mentoring graduate students is more intense and more purposeful than with undergraduates.
@ Sarah
ReplyDeleteDeciding on what areas of Student Affairs to focus on for your job search can be difficult if you have a broad range of experiences like I did. I think knew there were areas I was not qualified for and then I took out the areas I knew I did NOT want to work in. For example, I did not look at jobs in greek life or residence life which narrowed the pool considerable. Then I thought about location. At first I thought I would go anywhere warm but the more I thought about it the more I considered that I wanted to be able to drive home if I needed to. I set the driving limit at 10 hours and went from there. This still allowed my a very wide range of states and options.
I’m sure that you have heard that unless you are looking at housing positions it may take time to find the right job. A lot of institutions won’t know if they have available positions until later in the year and if you have a similar path to mine that means you have prior experience which means you may be qualified for a higher level job and those jobs often do not open until much later. The name of the game right now is patience…and I know that is hard to hear but that is the truth. The other thing to remember is that whatever job you do take it will not be your forever job. Think of it as your starter job. This next step is something you will do short term before you look for your next position so, it doesn’t have to have all the bells and whistles. This next job needs to be a job you are qualified for with enough room for you to grow in other areas. You don’t want to take a job that you are over qualified for because you will be bored in 6 months and want to leave. Look for something with enough room for growth but not so much that you can’t get the position. But, most importantly look for something that you know you will like but you know you will want to grow out of, this is not the time to look for a job to settle in and stay forever. Even with previous experience you will still need to build your post master experience in the field so expect to only stay in this next job 2-3 years unless it is a higher level job then still you will want to broaden yourself and your resume by moving out of that in 4-5 yrs.
I hope that helps, the job search process is so personal and can feel overwhelming. Let me know if you want to discuss it further I would be happy to talk thing out over the phone if you need too.
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ReplyDeleteThanks Amy, that advice was really helpful and rings so true especially in housing. I will remember this when I start my next position.
ReplyDeleteHi Amy,
ReplyDeleteIt was very helpful to hear that moving up the ladder does not always mean that you will be far removed from students. I enjoy the daily interaction and relationships that I have built with my students. It is a huge factor in why I chose to go into student affairs. It is reassuring to know that depending on the culture of the institution I may still have the opportunity to work closely with students.
If higher level positions do not have responsibilities that require them to have contact with students, what are ways this can still be done?
Hi Amy,
ReplyDeleteThanks again for taking time out of your busy day to answer the number of questions posed. I wanted to know how big of a role do ethics factor in as a student affairs professional? What processes does one go through to make certain that he or she is acting within the ethical standards set by the office?
What advice would you offer to someone that might not want to continue on in student affairs?