Hi, Elizabeth! It's your turn to interact with the CSA students, finishing up the blog assignment for the semester. They've really enjoyed Amy and Kaya are are looking forward to following along with you. They're full-bore in their job searches and, of course, it's all unfolding at different paces for them, and that's stressful. Given your success at finding your way in a progressive caeere path, you might have some good advice for them. Let's get you going with the same set of questions that Amy and Kaya addressed so nicely.
1.) Describe your professional path in the field. If there are aspects of your decision making in your career choices that may inform how our students approach the beginning of their own professional employment, please share them. If there are things you'd have done differently, please explain them.
2.) Describe some challenges you've faced in the work. Are there experiences you've had as a supervisor (or with a supervisor) that presented particular difficulty (or particular joy)? Are there challenging interactions with faculty, colleagues, students, or parents that have made lasting contributions to your learning?
3.) What keeps you going? What are the best parts of the work, particularly any neat surprises you've experienced, ways in which the work was better or more fun than you expected?
4.) You may have addressed this, but if there are any particular pieces of advice that you'd share with entering professionals, what would they be? These students are beginning their job searches (remember that?) and at the brink of making choices about what they'll be doing and where - choices that matter. Any advice for them?
The "last ten" (alphabetically) of the class will be interacting with you. Have a great time, and thanks so much for doing this!
Best,
Tom
Hello Everyone,
ReplyDeleteThank you for this wonderful opportunity to talk with you about your job searches and careers in Higher Ed.
I should have my answers posted to Tom's prompts shortly.
I look forward to talking with you.
Elizabeth
Question 1: My first professional job directly after completing my undergraduate career was at Hamline University in St. Paul, MN. I was a residence hall director there for two years. My community included law students, international students, and traditional age students.
ReplyDeleteStarting my career at Hamline University was a wonderful opportunity. Hamline University was small, it allowed me the chance to do a concurrent assignment in Student Activities. Small schools can offer you opportunities to grow by exposing you to different areas of student life.
Student Affairs has allowed me to travel the country and experience many different colleges and universities. I have worked at Western Washington University, University of Idaho, twice, and Old Dominion University. I am currently at the University of Washington.
I have learned through all of my job searches a couple of key things that help me to be successful.
Be Open to Possibilities- In 1997 I had the opportunity to interview at the University of Oregon for a Residence Life position. I had done 4 on campus interviews up to that point at various institutions. I was convinced that the University of Oregon was the right fit for me. Just before I left for the interview, I was contacted by the University of Idaho requesting an on campus interview. I explained that I was traveling to the Northwest and that while I appreciated their offer I had already narrowed down my choices. The Dean of Students at the University of Idaho convinced me to come to the University of Idaho since I was already going to be on that side of the country. I agreed to go for an on campus interview. Well, I was offered the position at both the University of Oregon and the University of Idaho. And to my surprise, I ended up at the University of Idaho! Be open to possibilities, you may not have considered a particular region or type of institution, but sometimes that is the one that is the right fit for you.
Take time to Transition- Moving to a new institution and town can be exciting and challenging all at the same time. I have found that I am much more successful if I can arrive at least a week to 10 days before the job starts. This allows time to explore, discover the grocery store and figure out where important things to you are located in your new home. This is basic Maslow, until you take care of shelter, food and basic needs it is hard to concentrate on being present to the new people and responsibilities of your new job.
The best part of my work is working with students. They inspire me, challenge me and amaze me. Finding ways to balance my work as a conduct officer and my work with leadership groups is important.
ReplyDeleteI think one of the surprises of my work is just how much impact you can have on a student’s life. At one institution I had to suspend a student for a third time alcohol violation. He served the suspension and had to find a way to support himself through the suspension. He ended up working at a fast food company and really hated it. He also saw that there were lots of people who worked there who had issues with alcohol or drugs. He saw that’s where his life was heading unless he got help. He did and when he returned to school a year later, he came in and brought me the first art project he did that year. He thanked me for holding him accountable. That student went on to graduate with honors because he valued his education and his future.
Good Morning- I am just reviewing this blog to make sure that I got everything down and it appears that my technology skills were not crackerjack yesterday! I know I posted more than this, so lets have another go today! I am going to blame it on Monday rather than on my lack of blogging skills!
ReplyDeleteQuestion 2: One of the reasons I wanted to work in Student Affairs is because this is challenging work. You never quite know what is coming around the corner or what student will sit down in your office and tell you an amazing story that inspires or frustrates you.
ReplyDeleteWorking with people who are becoming adults is challenging work. That may seem simplistic, but finding a way to balance your desire to help that student become more than what they currently are through appropriate challenge and support, and what they see themselves being can be frustrating. For example, I just met with a student who smoked marijuana on campus. He is a senior who is interested in applying to medical school. During our conversation it became apparent that he smokes everyday and uses pot as an anti-anxiety drug. I listened to him and offered him resources such as the Counseling Center and our Addictive Behavior Clinic as possible options to get to the root of the issues. The student can identify that he has a problem with anxiety, but he is unwilling or unable at this time to take advantage of resources which may help. I know that his dreams of becoming a doctor are in jeopardy if he continues this behavior but right now, he doesn’t know that. It can be challenging work.
As I think of where you are in your career development, another challenge and joy is learning how to adjust to a new work environment. You may have been very successful at a previous institution and it is tempting to say at my old school we did…… My recommendation is to read the landscape of your new institution first, try to understand why something is done a certain way first so that you can help to offer your leadership in ways which will be seen as creative rather than as critical. Trust me…I have learned this one the hard way!
Question 4. Choices do matter. Look for something that is going to give you exposure to more than just what the job description says. Are there mentors available to you? Will there be people who can show you around the town, the University and the culture of the area? Student affairs is wonderful in that you can explore loads of different places in the country or the world, but you need to be able to build transferable skills throughout your career. Sometimes, and I would say often times it is not always the job title that defines the job but the responsibilities and opportunities. I have had some strange titles but I have been able to build up my skill set over time through doing more than what my job description said on paper.
ReplyDeleteOk folks I think that is about it. I have worked all over the country in all sorts of jobs, if you would like to hear about the best way to drive from Ohio to Seattle, or Florida to Virginia, or Virginia to Idaho, or just about anything in between I am happy to share! Good Luck.
ReplyDeleteHi Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteThanks for giving us your insight and sharing some of your stories. I suppose this goes along with question 1: I'm struggling with the thought of having to move around several times in the coming years to be successful in student affairs. Do you attribute your success to your willingness to be mobile? I look at people who have built solid careers at one institution and envy them; while those like our fearless leader, Dr. Miller have been willing and able to bounce around the country.
Thanks!
Chad Whistle
Hi there Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed eading about your insight into the work that you do in student affairs. I do have a question for you, though. What surprised you most about your first position? What weren't you prepared for? Also, what strategies have you used in order to get connected into the geographic areas that you have worked in? I'm concerned with being able to "plug-in" to the various cities and/or towns that I work in and hear that it is so important to make a life outside of the work that you do. Any insight that you could provide would be fantastic! Thanks in advance!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteApparently I am not skilled at blogging, seeing as how I just deleted my original post. Oops. Let's try this again ...
ReplyDeleteIt appears as though you have successfully worked in a variety of functional areas within student affairs. Do you have any words of wisdom for individuals applying for positions that are outside the realm of their graduate assistantships (perhaps from the time when you moved from the domain of residence life )?
Thank you in advance!
Lindsey
Hi Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI found your story about conduct meetings very interesting. How do you cope with that student who just isn't coming around, such as the pre-med student you spoke with? I know that I can pin-point a couple of students that I have come in contact with, had the conversation, and either nothing changed or they changed for the semester and the summer brought them into old habits.
-John
Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteIn Question 2 you mentioned that you enjoy student affairs because of its challenging work in dealing with students. As I am sure you are aware, at times frustration sometimes outweighs inspiration when interacting with students on a daily basis. What techniques and/or methods do you use to remain balanced mentally and physically, be it while at work or outside of the office?
Kris Stubbs
Hi Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteI enjoyed reading your stories about your career path and your passion for working with students. What has been the most surprising thing that you discovered once you started a job? I try to ask that question to the people in the position that I am interviewing for and I have found very interesting responses.
I am also curious to hear the time line and the progression that people follow in terms of how long they stay in a position. It seems that some people stay in entry level positions for 2 to 3 years and move up while others stay for 4 to 5 years. And others try to work at 2 different institutions before they move up. Assistant and Associate Directors seem to spend more time in those positions and obviously they are less plentiful compared to the many entry level positions. What are some tips on positioning yourself to get to your end goal? Where do you see yourself in the future?
Best,
Jenna Schwartz
Hello everyone, great questions, and some of them are my favorite ones to answer so I am so glad you asked them! I will take a stab at answering a couple now and try to work on the rest throughout the day.
ReplyDeleteChad- I have to admit that I loved moving around the country to experience new regions, and institutions. One of the advantages I think that provides is that you also have the chance to get involved with the institution's professional development organization on a regional level. This has been one of the joys in my career. I have been involved in NASPA, ACUHO-I, NODA and ASCA.
ReplyDeleteAt some institutions I have worked, many folks have been those lifers, staying at one institution. I have seen good things and not so good things there. First some institutions become stagnant in their student affairs philosophy. As a new person coming into an institution where people like things the way they are it can be challenging to offer new ideas and insights.
On the other hand there are institutions, such as the University of Idaho where there is a good mix of lifers and new folks that it makes for a rich and vibrant Student Affairs division.
If you are looking for an institution where you want to grow, ask if there are opportunities for advancement. How long are people in positions before opportunity to take on more responsibility arise? These would be important things to suss out before choosing your institution for life!
Hi Elizabeth!
ReplyDeleteThank you so much for all of your valuable input and stories of your experiences and how you’ve come to where you’re at in Student Affairs. It’s good to be reminded about the willingness to be open with positions because I know it sometimes is difficult once you get your mind set on a location or type of job.
I know you were just thrown a lot of difficult and thought provoking questions, so I will try to make mine simple and short.
1.) Looking back if you could change anything about your career thus far, what would it be?
2.) With all of the relocating that occurs in student affairs, do you have any advice on how to cope with consistent moving?
Although I think relocating is fun and exciting, I also get worried that I’ll constantly be packing up my life and moving and therefore never make a home for myself anywhere!
Thanks for all of your advice!
-Laura
Jessica- I am so glad you asked this question. My first position was as a Residence Hall Director at Hamline University. I will NEVER forget one of my first staff meetings in my apartment with my staff. This was after RA training and school had perhaps started.
ReplyDeleteI had FOURTEEN staff members..I remember us all sitting in a circle on the floor of the apartment and all fourteen pairs of eyes were on me...ME!! I was leading this team. I remember thinking, " Oh my God, what have I gotten myself into?" Half my staff was older than me, and a fair number were international students, I was just this introverted girl from Ohio! I thought I was prepared and I was certainly confident, but if truth be told, I was probably cocky rather than confident. The enormity of what I had committed myself too crystallized at that moment for me. I was certainly surprised! We had a great two years. I learned more from them about myself, my leadership style and my ability to be effective in student affairs than in any other job since. About a third of the staff went into Student Affairs for their careers and I am still in touch with them today.
Jessica- as to your other question about getting plugged in. I think it depends on where you are at. Some town and gown relationships are very close and it makes sense to be very involved in the University life by attending lectures and University events. You can meet people at these functions who can help introduce you to the other side of town.
ReplyDeleteThe other thing I do is I try to assess in the interview how well the organization does at bringing in new employees. On the interview do they point out interesting things as you are driving around town? Can they answer things such as what is the culture life like in this area? Those help me decide on institutions. Please ask and don't assume because you are moving to a great place like Seattle that you will be swept up in the great goings on.
My last piece of advice when you move to a new town is to take a short subscription to the local paper. There can be great ads for things that you may want to do or get involved with.
Hope that helps.
Hello Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteMy question follows Jessica in the fact of "plugging in" to the geographic region. I have also worked in different regions of the US and each one of them I have struggled early on to do more than just my job. Since we have talked in depthly about being able to balance work and social life I was wondering how have you done this? Do you have a support network? I have talked to some military people about this because they have some experience in moving around alot. They told me that the best way to plug in to a comunity is to get involved in everything you can such as church, volunteering, social groups, etc. Have you found that these techniques work for you?
Tyler Spencer
Hi Elizabeth,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your insight and sharing your student affairs career path with us. One of your responses resonated with me. You mentioned that your “ recommendation is to read the landscape of your new institution first, try to understand why something is done a certain way first so that you can help to offer your leadership in ways which will be seen as creative rather than as critical.” Can you give some further insight into this? Perhaps some strategies that have worked for you in the past?
Hi Lyndsey- I have had many positions in which I worked outside of what I had done before. If you are looking for a position different than your graduate assistantship, you need to focus on those transferable skills and package them in a way that looks like the skills needed for the position you are applying for. The other thing is that hopefully you have gained skills from internships, and practicum that are meaningful for the position you are seeking.
ReplyDeleteThe first position can perhaps be the toughest, and depending on what it is, in this economic climate, I may actually recommend a different approach. It may be beneficial to apply to schools looking for someone with your background and expertise even if it is not your dream job. The cavet to that is then choosing a school where you can also gain more skills in the area you do want to pursue. For example, in my first residence life job I was also responsible for serving 10 hours a week in Student Activities. My role was to advise a group of students interested in Volunteerism and Public Service. Later in life I was able to use that experience to secure a position outside of Student Affairs as the Director of Volunteer Services for a major Hospice. I have returned to Student Affairs but that break really helped me to be a better professional.
John- I think that you have to grow a thick skin sometimes in the work I do in Student Conduct. Our role as student affairs professionals is to facilitate student learning. Sometimes that process is a stop start process. For us it can be very frustrating, because we want to help the student, but ultimately, growth happens because the student is ready to grow. Ready to change old habits and adopt new ones, something inside them connects to something else that facilitates that change. I think the challenge for us is that we may not always get to see that transformational moment. It may take more time that we have with that student.
ReplyDeleteI sometimes think that student development is a bit like when an infant learns to walk. At first there is shuffling forward, then crawling, pulling oneself up with furniture and finally walking. But along the way there are lots of falls, hurts and new attempts. Accepting that it is a process and some students may not be at the point in their developmental process we would like them to be can be frustrating. But for me I hang on to the hope that one day they will continue on their journey of becoming adults, and perhaps my intervention may play a small role in that journey.
Hi Kris- Ok I am going to be honest here...this summer I got married. Getting into the car at the end of the day and being with my husband really helps to balance me out. Both he and I are older (ok so I am 44, that's not TOO old) we recognize that we have limited time on earth together and so we want to get everything out of it that we can. Leaving the frustrations of our challenging work at the door means that I can focus my energies on creating my life with him.
ReplyDeleteSo while that is my current strategy it hasn't always been my strategy. For me connecting to nature has always been a key to dealing with the stress of my work. I love to be outdoors and if there is water involved all the better. I swim regular and scuba dive. In fact I started to put having water around me as one of my factors in choosing a job location. Knowing what works for you is important and then seeking ways to maximize that will help you be better at helping students become adults.
Jenna, Laura, Tyler and Rose: Your questions are next! I have to take a pause in blogging..wow never thought I would be saying that! I am off to interview a candidate for a position in my office!
ReplyDeleteI will try to get back to you in the next hour or so...stay tuned and thank you all for the great conversation.
Ok Jenna here is a crack at your questions. I can tell you the most surprising thing I found out at my current job....TECHNOLOGY!! I thought moving to the University of Washington, and Seattle would be a tech rich environment..well...not so much! The Student Information System was created in 70s and then that was that...its a DOS based system. Also, UW claims to have invented email..they created a system and then that was that..it too was DOS based. So I guess the lesson learned is to do what you are doing and ask questions, and don't assume anything!
ReplyDeleteYour question about how long to stay in a position is very individualized. For me I come into a position with great enthusiasm and some goals to accomplish. I know what I can offer the organization. For me once I have done what I can or accomplished the goals I find that I get itchy feet for new challenges. That sometimes means a new position. For others, staying and seeing your programs grow over time is very rewarding so staying longer makes sense.
I think the key is that you still have enthusiasm for the work and that you can offer something to the students you work with. Likewise you may consider positions that will grow with you, so that as you gain more skills you can take on more responsibility.
Hi Laura I will try the second part first about the moving..for me working primarily in Residence Life I was of the philosophy if I couldn't fit it in my car I probably didn't need it. This helped me to really think about the possessions in my life that were important.
ReplyDeleteI think that knowing you may be in a place for a short period of time does a couple of things. One unless you love driving BIG UHAUL trucks and pulling your Car behind so that you are as large as a semi truck, it makes you think about how much "stuff" you really need.
Secondly, since you don't know if you will pass through that part of the country again, or that town, I find that it encourages you to try to get as much out of the experience as possible.
Eventually you will be at a place in your career where you can see yourself being there for a long time. But even then, as Dr. Miller will tell you, being open to new possibilities is always a good thing...USF was lucky to get Tom!
Ok Laura looking back at my career, would I change anything about my career? Of course I would. I have had some ups and downs. There are things that I wish I was wiser about and had handled differently. However, they have all made me the person I am today. And I can't regret who I am today.
ReplyDeleteI think though the biggest thing I would change is that I would approach my first few jobs with a little more humility.
Elizabeth, thank you so much for taking the time to address both of my questions. Your insight really helped, and I am sure I will shortly be able to relate to your story of advising a huge group of people. I've been grateful for all of the advising experience I have had thus far, but I'm sure that it will be a completely different experience once I'm on my own as a new professional in the field.
ReplyDeleteI also really liked your suggestion about picking up a short subscription to a local newspaper in the area-that seems like a great way to get some new ideas!!
I certainly have more questions, but I will give you a break for the moment to allow you to address everyone elses.
Tyler- you are right on it..getting involved with local groups is really critical to getting connected with the community.
ReplyDeleteReligious communities, civic organizations are all super ways to put down some roots and feel some ownership over your new home. Local sports leagues are also another great way. I know a lot of people connect through playing soccer, softball or darts or bowling...there is probably a league out there.
For me, I have a wide group of friends all over the country. Staying connected with phone calls, emails and facebook really helps when you move to a new place. You can share with them the challenges and joys of your new location.
Rose- reading the landscape for me means asking lots of questions, and listening to the responses. I try to observe the relationships between people and positions. Sometimes you may have the greatest idea, but if you need two different groups to come together that have a long history of not working well together it can be challenging. Sometimes you may not discover that the groups or individuals don't get along until you are into the project.
ReplyDeleteOne very important strategy I use is to always ask my supervisor for time at the beginning of a new job to have time to go out and meet people on campus. I ask for their list of folks they think I should know and meet, but I also ask folks along the way that I am doing informational interviews with who they think are key resources on campus for someone in my position.
This helps me from an understanding of the institution as well as the relationships between members of the institution.
To All: Thank you for the opportunity to interact with you this week. I am happy to answer more questions and feel free to email me at the University of Washington. Dr. Miller, will you please share my email address with the group? I will check again over the weekend if anyone has additional questions on the blog.
ReplyDeleteI wish you all the best of luck with your job searches. One piece of advice I have learned through my life is that no one job is forever unless you may want it to be. So look for something that you can find meaning in now in your life regarding your career. Have a weather eye to your future career goals, but allow yourself to be at peace with the fact that your career path may not go in a straight line.